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Pronouns with causative faire  

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kgipson
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Posts: 9
7 March 2016 9:27  

I know when your using causative faire, the pronoun placement rules are altered, so they precede faire, and not the infinitive if one is present. What about when you have 2 infinitives in a Causative Faire sentence?

Tu me fais donner a' manger au chien et (le sortir) or (le fais sortir) "le" being the DOP referring to the dog. I am attempting to say "Are you having me walk the dog and put him out?" Or are both of my attempts incorrect? Thanks


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davidsdottir
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Posts: 157
7 March 2016 11:42  

You're not far off, though the second one needs two infinitives - you need two different bits of faire; I'd say the meaning is slightly different - the first one is ... and take him out, and the second one is ... put him out.

Je sors le chien vs je fais sortir le chien / je le sors vs je le fais sortir

You want to say are you having me put the dog out - do both bits separately, then eliminate the words which are repeated in the second part.

Tu me fais donner à manger au chien?
Tu me fais faire sortir le chien? -> where will 'le' go? and what will you miss out? Two people are making another do something, so there's a plethora of 'faires'


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chenly58
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Posts: 178
11 March 2016 20:53  

In this case, we can say "tu me fais donner à manger au chien et le sortir également?" as we don't have to repeat "le chien and me " then we use " le sortir également? " if no, we can say, tu donne le chien à manger et aussi le sortir pour moi?


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robert
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Posts: 50
12 March 2016 23:52  

Almost, but not quite.
See, to place the 2 parts in parallel, they are like this:

me faire donner à ....le chien

me faire faire sortir le chien

So, combined, they should look like this:

Tu me fais donner à manger au chien

et le faire sortir

également ?


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chenly58
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 178
13 March 2016 1:19  

If in parallel, we can say: "Tu me fais faire sortir le chien et le faire manger également?" or "Tu me fais donner à manger au chien et à le faire sortir également?"


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robert
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Posts: 50
13 March 2016 8:25  

Sorry, neither is good.

Your 1st statement: what's wrong? See, you are substituting "manger" for the idiom "donner à manger à". Can't do that unless you actually want to quit using the idiom.

Now the 2nd statement- what's wrong with it? "Faire faire sortir" doesn't need "à" at all, no matter that the other part has "à".

So here are the 2 statements (whose structures I assume to be the ones you are trying to do):

Tu me fais faire sortir le chien
et lui donner à manger
également?

Tu me fais donner à manger au chien
et le faire sortir
également?


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robert
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Posts: 50
17 March 2016 16:07  

The last question is interesting. Did you mean it to be a helping question, or are you seeking the answer?


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chenly58
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Posts: 178
17 March 2016 21:11  

I prefer the one : "Tu me fais donner à manger au chien et le faire sortir également".
as the first one there are 3 verbs together in infinitive, so it sounds strange.

You are right, as the verb "sortir" in transitive one, so we can't use with the preposition "à".
so in exemple we only can say : Tu peux sortir le chien et lui donner à manger pour moi?" it's not an order, it just a request.


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robert
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Posts: 50
19 March 2016 9:54  

Davidsdottir's interesting question above is still unanswered. The question was where to put "le" if you're to substitute it for "le chien" in here:

Tu me fais faire sortir le chien?


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davidsdottir
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Posts: 157
19 March 2016 10:02  

🙂 I'm interested to see if the francophones would put where I would, and I was hoping the OP would take a venture at it.


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michel
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 44
23 March 2016 5:12  

Phrase originale :

Tu me fais faire sortir le chien ?

Avec remplacement de "le chien" par le pronom "le":

Tu me le fais faire sortir ?


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davidsdottir
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Posts: 157
23 March 2016 12:23  

Alors ça m'intéresse, moi j'aurais écrit "Tu me fais le faire sortir", 'me' étant l'objet direct du premier 'faire' et 'le chien/le' l'objet direct du deuxième 'faire', exactement comme en anglais - You make me put it out - où pas??


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robert
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Posts: 50
23 March 2016 23:22  

That's very logical, Davidsdottir. But watch "me le" in this by Victor Hugo:

Voulez-vous me recevoir, vous? voulez-Vous me vendre un morceau, et me le laisser manger dans un coin?

Moi, I say either of these is ok:

Tu me fais le faire sortir?

Tu me le fais faire sortir?


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chenly58
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Posts: 178
24 March 2016 3:26  

No, it's not correct, if you put "le" in stead of " le chien " in this way : "Tu me fais le faire sortir" it's no sense, as faire faire is two verbs together, and "le" you should put it before the first " faire " : " Tu me le fais faire sortir " example : "je fais faire les travaux dans ma maison = je les y fais faire."


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robert
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Posts: 50
24 March 2016 16:16  

Even in your last example, it is also ok to put the pronouns in between the 2 verbs.

To (hopefully) illustrate that point better, let's look at this example with 3 objects:

Tu me fais montrer la photo à Suzy?

If you are to substitute all the pronouns in, you would have 3: me, la, lui.

Now should not some of them go in between the 2 verbs ? Or do you still want all 3 before the first verb?


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